🥊 MALKI KAWA BREAKS DOWN THE ALL-NIGHT NEGOTIATION THAT BUILT ILIA TOPURIA vs. JUSTIN GAETHJE

By Cody Merrow | Fight Bananas | March 9, 2026

Live Producer, The Anik & Florian Podcast | Formerly of MMA Underground & The Pound 4 Pound Podcast Newsletter

Malki Kawa had just undergone a heart procedure.

It was Thursday. He was recovering. There was no fight. As far as the founder and CEO of First Round Management was concerned, his fighter,  undefeated featherweight and pound-for-pound star Ilia Topuria,  would not be competing on UFC Freedom 250, the promotion’s marquee White House event scheduled for June 14th in Washington, D.C.

Then came Friday night. Then came midnight.

Kawa joined Jon Anik and Kenny Florian on Episode 586 of The Anik & Florian Podcast, now powered by All The Smoke Fight, on Monday morning and walked through, in remarkable detail, the behind-the-scenes events that produced what is now the most anticipated fight on the UFC calendar: Ilia Topuria vs. Justin Gaethje for the UFC lightweight title.

The story, in Kawa’s telling, begins not at midnight on Friday, but weeks earlier, and winds through hospital rooms, competing negotiating priorities, and a series of near-misses that nearly sent Topuria back to Spain.

“I got a LOT of respect for Justin Gaethje…he’s a DOG” ~ @malkikawa pic.twitter.com/bqsRH2CR5g

— Anik & Florian Podcast (@AnikFlorianPod) March 10, 2026

🥊 “THERE’S A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE”

The public-facing version of events began Saturday morning when Kawa posted on X,  formerly Twitter, a message that sent the MMA world into speculation: “An all-night negotiation where I didn’t sleep hasn’t happened in a long time. When I tell you this story, you won’t believe it.”

On Monday, he made good on that promise.

“I won’t perjure myself at all,” Kawa told Anik and Florian. “I’m going to tell you guys the truth. There’s a lot of misinformation out there.”

The agent began by addressing comments made by UFC President Dana White at the post-event press conference following UFC 326 on Saturday night, in which White suggested that neither Topuria nor several other high-profile fighters were ever formally booked for the card. Kawa largely agreed with that characterization, but offered important context.

“Dana’s been pretty much honest,” Kawa said. “There was no Islam fight… agree, like we agreed to fighting Islam if that’s what they wanted to do, but the terms and all that was not there. You following what I’m saying? There was no fight done.”

Malki Kawa walks Jon and Kenny through the WILD, week-long negotiations that led to Topuria vs. Gaethje headlining the White House card 🤯

Shoutout to @malkikawa for coming through and keeping it real with the guys. 🫡

Hear the FULL story on the @AnikFlorianPod YouTube! pic.twitter.com/t7zHrmmDWS

— Anik & Florian Podcast (@AnikFlorianPod) March 10, 2026

🥊 THE ISLAM MAKHACHEV CONVERSATION

Before Gaethje ever entered the picture, Kawa revealed, First Round Management’s primary pursuit was a lightweight unification bout against Islam Makhachev.

“We were told that Ilia was not going to be on the card earlier that week,” Kawa said. “Then we get a call that said, hey, if we can make a fight, you can fight Islam or Gaethje. And we actually said, let’s take Islam. We would love to fight Islam.”

Kawa was direct about the reasoning. “It’s not about picking an opponent because one is harder or easier, or scared or not scared,” he said. “Money is involved. And the bigger the fight, the more money it is. And so we wanted to make the most amount of money that we possibly could.”

The Islam conversation, according to Kawa, did not progress past preliminary discussion. A number was offered. It was declined. Communication went quiet. By Wednesday afternoon, Kawa described the situation as effectively dead.

“There was no fight going on as of Wednesday afternoon,” he said.

That Wednesday, Kawa noted, he believes the UFC was in conversations with multiple camps simultaneously,  an assessment he said was consistent with the way Dana White characterized things publicly. “I believe that because even the way it was said to me, who do you want to fight? Like, you guys could fight this guy, you guys could fight that guy,” Kawa said. “The money that was offered was small in comparison to what we had already said we wanted to fight those guys from before.”

🥊 THE ABLATION, AND A SILENCE THAT ALMOST ENDED IT

What happened next, Kawa said, was almost entirely a product of circumstance.

On Thursday,  the day after the Wednesday talks went cold,  Kawa underwent a cardiac ablation procedure, a treatment used to correct atrial fibrillation by targeting nerve tissue in the heart. He was recovering Thursday into Friday. He was not in contact with the UFC. Topuria’s name, to his knowledge, was off the table.

“I’m sleeping Friday afternoon,” Kawa said. “I’m thinking we’re not on the card. It’s just not happening. They haven’t called me.”

Before the procedure, Kawa said he had made a point of directly asking UFC matchmakers whether Topuria was going to be used for the White House card in any capacity. The answer had been no.

“I specifically called Hunter and said, do you guys plan on using Ilia for this fight at all in any way, shape, or form?” Kawa said. “If the answer is no, he’s going back to Spain. If he goes back to Spain and you guys call in a month or six weeks for him to fight, you know how that’s going to go. It’s not going to be a simple negotiation.”

With no word from the promotion and the announcement reportedly scheduled for Saturday, Kawa went to sleep Friday evening believing the matter was closed.

🥊 11:59 P.M. — THE PHONE CALL

At eleven fifty-nine on Friday night, according to Kawa, everything changed.

“My brother blows me up,” Kawa recounted. “Literally, it was eleven fifty-nine Friday night. ‘Yo, you need to call Hunter. They’re trying to do the Ilia fight.'”

What followed, Kawa described as one of the most grueling negotiations of his professional career, conducted without sleep, while still recovering from a heart procedure, over the span of nearly twelve hours.

“From twelve midnight, literally twelve midnight, to almost eleven o’clock, eleven-thirty the next morning, it was just nonstop negotiating,” Kawa said. “I’m on the phone with Hunter for an hour and change. And then I’m on the phone with Ilia for an hour and change. And then I’m back on the phone with Hunter for another hour and change, and then back to Ilia and back and forth.”

Asked directly whether the compressed timeline worked to his advantage at the bargaining table, Kawa did not hesitate.

“Yeah, because ultimately… if somebody really needs something and you get pushed up against the wall at midnight, yeah, it’s probably in your advantage,” he said. “Because if at that point you’re not doing a deal with Ilia, and if Kayla can’t fight, and if Islam can’t fight, and if Conor ain’t fighting, then who else are you guys talking about?”

Final terms were agreed to, Kawa said, at approximately eleven-thirty the following morning.

🥊 ON JUSTIN GAETHJE

With the fight signed, Kawa turned to the opponent, and was measured in his assessment of the former interim lightweight champion.

“I think anybody sleeping on Gaethje is making a serious mistake,” Kawa said. “He’s a dog, man. And at the end of the day, you can’t measure a dog by wins and losses.”

Kawa acknowledged the expectation that Topuria, installed as a heavy minus-455 betting favorite, would be expected to finish Gaethje early. But he pushed back on any suggestion of complacency in Topuria’s camp.

“I think everybody expects a clean first-round knockout from Ilia,” Kawa said. “He’s shown he’s got the power in his hands, but I’m watching this guy take shots that most guys shouldn’t take. And he’s absorbing them. So I got a lot of respect for Justin Gaethje.”

Kawa was direct in his warning to anyone who would underestimate Gaethje. “If you’re not prepared, if you’re not sitting there really, really trying to beat this guy, you’re really asking for trouble,” he said. “Gaethje’s a winner. You can’t take anything away from that guy. He’s a dog.”

🥊 THE TOPURIA-MAKHACHEV QUESTION: AND A THREE-DIVISION MISSION

When Anik put a direct yes-or-no question to Kawa, can the Topuria-Makhachev fight be made? — the agent answered with unusual emphasis.

“Yes. Yes. Yes,” Kawa said. “And let me give you more on top of the yes. We want that fight. We’ve asked for that fight. It’s two times already. We’ve asked for that fight and I thought we were going to get it now.”

The framing of that fight, Kawa explained, is inseparable from Topuria’s broader strategic ambitions. The 27-year-old Georgian-Spanish fighter, Kawa said, is operating on a specific career timeline, one aimed at becoming the first legitimate three-division UFC champion.

“If he can do that and be the first legit three-division champ, and be a tri-champ, right? And go into that world like that, you’re talking about a strategy,” Kawa said.

Kawa noted that the path to that goal may require flexibility on weight class. “Islam’s days at lightweight are probably done,” he said. “And for you guys, obviously that fight financially and legacy-wise makes more sense at seventy. But if the only way to do it was him to come down to fifty-five — shoot, no one is saying no to that either.”

In describing Topuria’s mindset, Kawa reached for comparisons outside the sport.

“You think of Kobe, you think of Jordan. You think of Bones, because his mentality when it comes to the fight game is unparalleled,” Kawa said. “Ilia’s in that conversation. He does not see anyone. He doesn’t care. There are blinders on.”

Kawa added that Topuria has been explicit, including in direct conversations with his own manager, who also represents Jon Jones, about his ultimate ambition.

“He tells me all the time, ‘I know you represent Bones. I know you love Bones. I know Bones is the greatest of all time,'” Kawa recounted. “He goes, ‘But when I’m done, I will be better than Jon.’ And so, of course, I sit there and I say, ‘Bro, I hope so.'”

🥊 DIRTY BOXING: MIAMI AND WASHINGTON, D.C.

Before departing the program, Kawa turned to his boxing promotion, Dirty Boxing, and delivered two significant announcements.

The first: a Dirty Boxing event is scheduled at the Jackie Gleason Center in Miami, described by Kawa as attached to the fighter hotel during UFC Miami, the night before the upcoming UFC card in that city.

The second announcement was more pointed. When Anik pressed him on whether Dirty Boxing was planning a Washington, D.C. show the night before UFC Freedom 250, Kawa confirmed it.

“We’re going to do a Dirty Boxing show in D.C. the night before the UFC up there,” Kawa said. “That’s the intention, for us to do a DBX show the night before. And from what I’m hearing, I’m probably going to have some dignitaries come to our event. So it’s going to be pretty, pretty cool.”

Kawa also took a moment, as the interview concluded, to reference the promotion’s ringside announcer, Anik’s twin brother, Jason Anik, in a manner that generated audible reaction in the studio.

“Homeboy Jason Anik is definitely more handsome,” Jon said, “and I will tell you, man, they’re coming after him, so you better lock the guy down and pay the man.”

🥊 THE TAKEAWAY

Kawa signed off with a note of personal transparency: the ablation recovery, the NFL free agency work running parallel to the MMA negotiations, and the sleepless night that delivered one of the most significant fights the sport has seen announced in recent memory.

“Do some yoga, take care of your health,” Anik told him before the call ended. “I know it’s a crazy few months.”

Kawa laughed. “Appreciate you guys.”

The full interview is available on Episode 586 of The Anik & Florian Podcast, now powered by All The Smoke Fight, on YouTube.

Watch the full episode here →

Follow Cody Merrow on X: @cody_merrow Live Producer — The Anik & Florian Podcast | Fight Bananas Lead Writer